“We decided to make Russia feel bad.” Legoyda on moving away from the Bologna system

Interview aif. ru with MGIMO Professor, Chairman of the Synodal Department for Church Relations with society and media, member of the Public Chamber of the Russian Federation Vladimir Legoyda.

Yulia Tutina, aif. ru: — Vladimir Romanovich, Russia left the Bologna system of higher education. Were hurried we?

Vladimir Legoyda: — Let's start with the fact that all European universities were the first to refuse to cooperate with Russian ones, they excluded us from this system. This decision was in the very logic or rather in the absence of the logic of the measures that the West applies everywhere in regard to Russia. They, as in other similar cases, were guided by the only current emotion: “let's do Russia badly.” But it will become worse for us? Not not sure at all. I want to remind you of a few things: firstly, the very entry into the Bologna system in our country was difficult. Many universities resisted this idea for a long time. And secondly, the Bologna system we did not work in full. Here is just one example: we switched to the bachelor-master system: 4 + 2 years. (At the same time, by the way, in a number of specialties and universities, the specialty (5 years) continues to exist). But in the West, the bachelor-master system assumes that if a person is engaged in science, after a master's degree, he immediately defends his doctoral degree. And we preserved the old Soviet system: Candidate — Ph.D.

— A A will Russia also refuse the Unified State Examination?

— The USE has no relation to the Bologna system, that is a separate story. I think that a sharp rejection of the USE is simply impossible, the system of admissions based on the USE scores has developed.

Only in a few universities left the right to additional entrance examinations, but and there the USE — basis.

The USE as an assessment is certainly a more objective option than an oral exam. Any honest teacher will tell you that. But at the same time, with with the help of the Unified State Examination — no matter how you change or complicate — we test only a certain set of knowledge and skills of an applicant.

Therefore, I am a consistent supporter of the university having the opportunity, taking into account its specifics, to check the motivation of the applicant, the understanding of where and for what he/nbsp;came, and also those knowledge and skills that are not  USE. At a minimum, this requires a full-fledged interview, which will be assessed and influence admission. Well and at most an interview plus additional tests. With high scores in the USE it is not scary, with low — you won't pull it out. But there are borderline situations, and the university should be able to help motivated children and cut off those who, let's say, made the wrong university.

— Somehow you doubtfully talk about the benefits of the exam…

— The biggest problem of the USE is not receipt, but the school educational process. The question is not what the USE is aimed at, but what it contains"side effect". And a side effect is that the last two years — 10 and 11 class — our children are mainly preparing for the passing of those exams that they have chosen. And everything. It's not even studying just three subjects for two years. They don’t study, say, history for two years, but they prepare for two years to write the text of the Unified State Examination in history. Two years — it's a lot. And after all, before that, they have been preparing for the OGE in the same way for 2 years. And when does he study? And how? The purpose of school education — this is the formation of a person's worldview at a certain age at a certain level. A exam preparation — this is just a small part of the educational process. Today, alas, it dominates.

— Western sanctions must have shocked your students? Who needs diplomacy specialists now?

— MGIMO — this is an intelligent special forces that can quickly adapt to any conditions. And that's how we were taught, and that and that's how we try to teach our students. I entered MGIMO as a citizen of the USSR, and by the end of the first semester of the first year, the USSR ceased to exist. Everything was changing rapidly, including in education. The test was not the easiest. But we managed — thanks to our wonderful teachers.

— Falkov said that  the bologna system will be first of all left in engineering specialties. And the humanities where will they move?

— Not yet ready to draw, as they say now, a roadmap for liberal education. But I can say that the comments of our Minister and his colleagues seem to me very professional and adequate to the ongoing changes. Pain points and knots are clear. How to untie — it requires separate preparation. It is obvious to everyone that most of the problems of higher education rest on the school. And they pop up when yesterday's schoolchildren sit down at university desks. In addition, 20-30 years ago, schoolchildren, graduates of subfaculties, guys after the army entered the first year. This mixed audience was different: intellectually, socially, emotionally, if you will. Today 90, and that and 100% of enrolled — These are yesterday's students.

— You said that everything depends on school. And what problems are there, besides those already mentioned?

— Let's say a liberal arts education requires deep immersion in layers of culture, in the study of languages, texts — otherwise impossible. And       schoolchildren now, and                        often simply do not have time. Yes and new fashionable forms of work — presentations — for all their productivity, sometimes they lead to the fact that without a presentation a person cannot really tell anything: he is used to expressing his thoughts in a “presentational” way. And you need to be able to do it differently. So it's great to have the essay back.

Churchill said: “Any educated European can be a journalist.” The key word here is “educated”. Previously, a normal journalism faculty, first of all, provided immersion in historical disciplines, in literature, it was a broad, serious humanitarian education that allowed a person to navigate in a variety of things. And now the curriculum is such that there is often no time for such an immersion. The history of religion is not fully studied. And how can one study the history of culture without this? Literature in abridged form.

— That is in Russia — education crisis?

— Why only in Russia? Education is in crisis around the world. They just helped us to feel it faster than others. And we should take full advantage of it. It's hard for me to talk about about China or Japan — I don't know these educational systems very well. But if we take the Western system, Europe plus America, where we so insistently rushed a year ago — then there is a long-standing and deep crisis. What was considered higher education, what goals higher education pursued 50 years ago, does not work today. I felt this for the first time when I 93-94 studied at an American university. There it was not at all clear whether the students were around me. The main content of university life had a very distant relation to study. It was more of a social club.

So far, the practice of restructuring the educational system is far ahead of understanding these changes. There should be people who deal with the philosophy of education. That is the answer to basic questions: what is higher education, how it should be, what kind of person we want to get at the output — not only narrowly professionally, but worldview. Here it is even necessary not only to correlate the number of engineers we train with the market needs, although this is very important. Remember, in 90s, in zero it was fashionable to study as lawyers and managers. Nobody has ever considered — And does need the country in such quantity  And then all these lawyers and managers at faculties, which were opened in a variety of institutions, received diplomas and went to trade in tents. But with & nbsp; higher education. Maybe I exaggerate, but very little.

There are two planes in education: ideological and professional. After the overproduction of lawyers, they tried to figure it out with the professional, they began to consider the needs of the country. With & nbsp; worldview is more complicated. I tell my students in the humanities: you have an idea of the world at the level of Newtonian physics. But physics has not seen the world like this for a long time. And which of humanities students can explain the difference between general relativity and special relativity? And & nbsp; after all, I would like the person who proudly says that he has a higher education to know this. Even if he graduated from the history department or the faculty of journalism.

— Does education need such a major overhaul?

— It is vital, education — a key factor in creating the future! Ministry of Education and Science, Ministry of Education — these are two strategically important — not important, but important — ministries. They determine how we you will live. Because education — it is what gathers the people into a nation, allows us to speak the one language. Without proper education, there can be no development, no improvement in the quality of life, as they say now. Without education, there will be nothing and no in any area — neither                        diplomatic                 on the internet?

— The lack of deep system knowledge is exacerbated by the vast expanse of the Internet, which contains a sea of ​​unverified information that is not knowledge. In & nbsp; this sea-ocean you need to be able to navigate. But we still digging in the coastal strip, unable to swim to depth. Knowledge is acquired through reading complex smart books and communicating with smart people, and there is no other way. A small internet tells us — yes no, there is another way: type in YouTube what Athenian democracy is, and a bunch of videos will pop up in the top ten, where people, perhaps even not related to history and historians, will talk about       . Serious sources in the  top ten will not pop up. But the deepness of few people will go, they read the first links. So you need to learn how to surf the Internet. Today it is one of the most important educational skills.

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